As a former radio presenter, he listens very carefully when it comes to content: Over candy and pure spring water, content manager Philipp Schütte and content marketing consultant Benjamin Brückner discussed the potential of podcasts and came to the conclusion that limiting oneself to text alone has long since ceased to work. A conversation that we naturally don't want to keep from you.
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From radio announcer to content marketer?
Philipp:
Hi Benjamin, I'm really glad you were able to make it.
Benjamin:
Hi Philipp, yes, thank you for the invitation.
Philipp:
Let's start with the classic introductory question: How did you get into online marketing?
Benjamin:
That wasn't actually the plan: I started out studying philosophy at the University of Leipzig. During that time, I quickly realized that I really enjoyed writing and journalism. So nothing stood in the way of my first career step at the student radio station "Mephisto 97.6."
After this first step, one thing led to another and I became a freelancer for MDR and ARD. However, I quickly realized that journalism also involves day-to-day operational work. This was only partially compatible with my passion for creative writing...
Philipp:
…which ultimately led you to content marketing?
Benjamin:
Exactly. After my time at the public broadcaster, I was lucky enough to be able to work with an online marketing agency. And from then on, I was completely hooked.
Philipp:
From radio announcer to content marketer.
Benjamin:
Yes, haha, you could say that. I find it fascinating that there are so many different formats in content marketing. A background in media is therefore always an advantage when you're active in content marketing.
After all, there's no point beating around the bush: limiting yourself to text alone no longer works today. Instead, you should always try to create a good mix in order to appeal to users on different levels.
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Professional reader
Philipp:
Just recently, you gave us a statement about your role as a reader at narando. Now that our readers know how narando works, I would like to ask you: How did you come up with the idea of becoming a reader?
Benjamin:
During my time at the radio station, I received training in voice training. In this training, you learn how to speak professionally in front of the microphone, because completely different rules apply there than in a normal conversation.
Philipp:
How does it differ?
Benjamin:
Well, on the one hand, you have certain melodic patterns and dramatic arcs in the way you speak, and on the other hand, you work with concrete units of meaning.
To do this, take the text to be set to music and structure it using accents. These points are then emphasized and highlighted when speaking.
After my time at the radio station, I came across narando rather by chance. They were looking for readers through an advertisement, and I simply applied. Quite conventionally.
Philipp:
Interesting, I also had voice training during my studies. However, it was for teaching. The focus there was not on melodic progressions and dramatic arcs, but on extremely amusing exercises for clear pronunciation.
Benjamin:
What kind of exercises were those?
Philipp:
Today, I only remember the call. You would shout "Haaalt" and fall backwards sharply. It was as if your voice was rolling down a mountain. The purpose of the whole exercise was to protect your voice in stressful everyday situations. This is extremely important for a future teacher, of course.
Benjamin:
Oh yes, I can imagine that.
Philipp:
But coming back to your work at narando: Could you live off the money you earn there?
Benjamin:
Well, not me, haha. The amounts involved are really minimal. I do it because I enjoy it. Just for fun, if you will.
Philipp:
So it's more of a hobby?
Benjamin:
Yes, definitely! It's important to note that there are several categories of assignments. Pro bono articles, for example, which I absolutely love to narrate.
This is mainly because these articles usually have a huge reach and great entertainment value. These include "Der Postillion," for which I have already recorded several articles.
In the past, you could always see how many people had listened to the audio. When it reached around 1,000 clicks, I was always really happy and motivated. But to come back to the original question: no, I can't make a living from it.
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The question of the ideal content format
Philipp:
The online world has given rise to an astonishing number of new professions, which is why I always follow up on things like this. But after getting to know each other, let's finally get down to business: What spoken content marketing formats are there anyway?
Benjamin:
Overall, there are currently only three formats that I believe are truly relevant for content marketing. These include podcasts, blogcasts, and voice assistants such as Alexa or Google Home.
Philipp:
I agree with the first two, but how exactly would you incorporate voice assistants into a content marketing strategy?
Benjamin:
As a publisher, you can easily embed your own blog into such a voice assistant. I even wrote a whole guide on this topic.
Philipp:
Okay, I take it all back. I hadn't actually thought of that. Do you think there will be more formats in the future?
Benjamin:
Personally, I believe that human speakers will gradually be replaced by artificial intelligence. We will most likely have to adapt to this.
Philipp:
At the very beginning, you mentioned that it is no longer sufficient to rely solely on text. What does ideal content look like to you?
Benjamin:
As in every marketing discipline, this depends heavily on the usage habits of the target group. I do think that video and audio will push text into the background somewhat, but it's impossible to generalize this for individual cases.
If you have a lot to say and therefore write an extremely long text, you can be fairly certain that the bounce rate will be high.
However, there are a few tricks you can use to draw users into the written word. Content should always generate a certain amount of excitement and be based on the fundamentals of fiction.
Specifically, this includes cliffhangers and powerful imagery. We are all familiar with this from our favorite TV shows: at the end of an episode, there is a dramatic event, an emotional climax, and then... the whole thing is not immediately...
Philipp:
...but only resolved three episodes later!
Benjamin:
Yes! But if you think about it further, that's not all there is to it. And that's exactly what I meant earlier: even the best text thrives on graphic breaks, which include infographics and audio players, for example. These elements add variety and encourage your users to spend more time on your website.
However, I can only reiterate that it is pointless to indiscriminately mix all media formats: if the target group prefers to read intently rather than listen to a podcast on their way to work, such a hybrid format will miss its mark. On the other hand, using the right formats increases my visibility and reach. It's all a question of strategy.
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Monetized podcasts and artificial intelligence
Philipp:
Speaking of strategy: One of the main goals of many content marketing campaigns is lead generation. Do you think podcasts can be monetized?
Benjamin:
Frankly, I think it's difficult to monetize a podcast. Of course, it can be divided into chapters with advertisements in between, as we can see on Spotify, for example. But then, of course, the number of hits has to be right.
It is best to steer clear of traditional advertising and calls to action in podcasts. Instead, you should use your own recordings to increase your reach and strengthen your profile as an expert.The best examples in this context are industries in which the spoken word plays a major role. Professional speakers can also demonstrate their skills with a podcast and thus convince agencies. First and foremost, podcasts remain a content driver with a strong branding effect.
Philipp:
In your blog, you also deal with the topic of artificial intelligence, among other things. What do you understand by content automation and what opportunities does it offer for content marketing?
Benjamin:
Ultimately, content automation is just an optimization of processes that would normally be done by humans. Currently, generic texts that can be mass-produced by AI are being used for advertising everywhere.
In order to sell this software and calm the heated tempers of the copywriting community, the argument is then put forward that it would be a win-win situation.
Philipp:
How can a copywriter benefit from AI? It seems more likely to take their job away.
Benjamin:
They call it a win-win situation because AI does not write all texts, only the particularly dull and statistics-heavy ones. The assumption is that authors are relieved of some of the burden and can concentrate on truly challenging content.
An interesting point of view, in itself. However, from experience, I can say that authors who are unfamiliar with the internet are grateful for supposedly dull texts. This is because it is when writing these articles that you first learn the craft, keyword: SEO.
If a machine takes over this task, it becomes extremely difficult for newcomers to gain a foothold in the internet industry. And to put it another way: who says that authors only want to write creative texts? On the contrary, I sometimes even find it good to write generic texts. It trains your own skills and is good practice in terms of speed.
Philipp:
And as a rather critical voice, what opportunities would you see for content marketing?
Benjamin:
As always, the opportunity lies in increased efficiency on the part of companies. That much is clear. It only becomes critical when problems arise in internal communication and, of course, subsequently in sales.
Philipp:
Can you elaborate on that?
Benjamin:
There are creative services that can only be automated to a certain extent. No one wants to read a novel written by a robot. At most, it would be a unique experiment, because people would find it interesting.
However, as a general rule, creative works, including texts, videos, and audio recordings, are always linked to the artist. After all, when we go to a concert, we want to see the artist, the personality, on stage, not just some machine.
For me, this is the point at which a company needs to rethink its approach if it wants to engage in content marketing. After all, even a corporate blog thrives on the people behind it. If it turns out that the company has been lying to the public for years and the texts are actually written by a machine, this will cause significant damage to its image.
If you turn it around, it's even more dramatic. Because even if a company is open about it and says, "Our texts are written by a machine," the sterile content does not create customer proximity, which reduces the concept of content marketing to absurdity.
Philipp:
Especially since it must also be said that these tools—I can't name names, of course—fall far short of expectations in terms of functionality. I therefore refuse to talk about AI in this context. At best, we are dealing with machine learning here, not a jack-of-all-trades.
But maybe I'm just too old-fashioned when it comes to this urge for constant improvement. What do you think?
Benjamin:
Not at all! With this phenomenon, we are talking about an over-optimization of art, which is actually a declaration of surrender to life itself.
Not everything can be optimized. If artificial intelligence produces all media in the future and there are no more series flops, these may be commercially successful, but there will be no innovation or further development.
As a creative mind, you should always clearly communicate to your customers that not everything can be optimized and handed over to a machine.
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How to integrate podcasts into your content marketing strategy?
Philipp:
How would you integrate podcasts into your content marketing strategy?
Benjamin:
First, you always have to ask yourself whether podcasts make sense for your target audience. But before conducting a market analysis, you should talk to the people who rate your website/services positively.
Honest feedback from them is worth much more than any statistics or studies. When it comes to podcast statistics, it's worth taking a very close look, because they are often distorted.
Approximately one-third of Germans consume audio streams, but 40% of these are accounted for by the major news portals and another 40% by entertainment platforms such as Spotify. You don't need to be a mathematician to realize that the market for content marketing purposes is then no longer very large.
Taking all of this into account, podcasts can be very successful. However, this is only the case if you effectively seed and promote your own recordings.
Philipp:
Which platforms would you recommend for podcast seeding?
Benjamin:
Spotify and iTunes are among the biggest players, but anyone who wants to publish there needs extremely good sound quality.
So if you're working with a smaller budget, you should create your own podcast as a skill on Alexa. This is a highly underrated option that is often overlooked.
Philipp:
I would have thought of SoundCloud now.
Benjamin:
Yes, there are even some online marketers who publish regularly there. Narando also has its own app for the audio versions of the texts, which you can easily download to your smartphone.
In addition, it can't hurt to keep an eye on Google when making future optimizations. After all, recently announced that audio searches will be optimized in the future. Given Google's reach, this naturally holds enormous potential.
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Why there is no such thing as The content format of the future?
Philipp:
Will we communicate more via spoken language on the Internet of the future, or will text remain the medium of choice?
Benjamin:
There is no such thing as THE format of the future, which is why I don't understand the discussion. Every content format has a future, be it written text or the spoken word. Podcasts were officially declared dead in 2007, and yet today, 12 years later, we have a first-class podcast hype.
This shows that you should never be too quick to declare a format dead and that the media we prefer to consume always depends on the situation. Some people simply prefer to read rather than listen to something, while others only watch videos.
Virtual reality is a very good example of hype that was predicted but did not materialize. Back in 2017, experts promised us a boom in this segment, but this did not even begin to materialize the following year. Especially not in the consumer sector.
Where VR works well, however, is at trade shows where products are presented that you can interact with.
Philipp:
I was just about to add that: if I can download furniture from the latest Ikea catalog and place it in my virtual apartment, that's very helpful. And of course, we mustn't forget other industries...
Benjamin:
Which industries do you mean?
Philipp:
Well, for example, the adult entertainment industry, where a VR concept would certainly be well received, haha. But you also have to keep the manufacturers in mind: Would Sony and/or Samsung want to be associated with a sleazy image if they suddenly started producing special adult entertainment glasses? Ultimately, it's the consumer who decides.
Benjamin:
Yes, but that's generally the case with innovations. Many companies seem to believe that you can educate customers. But to do that, you have to be able to inspire them to a very high degree, which very few actually manage to do.
And even companies that succeed don't always achieve success. Google Glass, to name just one example, failed miserably. Simply because it wasn't socially accepted.
Furthermore, I've observed quite the opposite when it comes to content, namely in the form of a reduction. People don't want to be constantly bombarded with sound, but are almost happy to have a few quiet minutes with a good text.
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Good examples of successful podcasts and helpful tips to conclude
Philipp:
Which podcasts/blogcasts can our readers learn something from? Do you have any specific recommendations?
Benjamin:
Absolutely. First, there's the podcast by Alexandra Polunin, who is one of the best-known Pinterest experts in the D-A-CH region. In addition to the depth of her content, her relaxed manner is particularly appealing. Well worth a listen!
On the other hand the podcast by Cord Neubersch, which probably few people here will be familiar with. He is a psychotherapist for whom I edited a book not too long ago. In his podcast, he and his sister talk about life and topics they encounter in their daily work.
Philipp:
A psychotherapist podcast!?
Benjamin:
Yes, something like that. You can't really do better content marketing than that: they draw attention to themselves and generate reach with their authentic stories.
Philipp:
Which customer project has challenged you the most in the area of podcasts/blogcasts so far?
Benjamin:
Those were actually the Postillion articles, because the sentences there were usually incredibly long and therefore difficult to set to music. When you have huge, mammoth sentences with numerous nested clauses, it's extremely difficult to use the right emphasis. Incidentally, the same applies to written emotions.
This became particularly clear when I once had to add audio to an article for the Daimler blog. In a blog post, employees reported on their company outing, and I found it really difficult to convey their emotions in words. After all, you weren't there yourself and have to interpret a lot. That was quite a challenge.
Philipp:
And that brings us to our final question: What tips can you give our readers when it comes to podcasts/blogcasts?
Benjamin:
- Be sure to invest in good equipment. This includes a decent microphone, a pop filter, and a so-called silent box, which you can easily build yourself. All in all, you should end up spending around €170.
- Get feedback on your voice and learn to work with it. You don't need a voice coach to do this. Make test recordings and listen to your own voice several times. Ask friends, acquaintances, and family members for their opinion and try to improve based on this information.
- When selecting topics, proceed as you would when researching blog articles and search specifically for topics that really interest your target audience.
- Share your podcasts across all channels and stay tuned!
Philipp:
A good closing remark. Thank you for visiting, Benjamin!
Benjamin:
We'd love to come back!
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Quote of the day from online marketing expert Benjamin Brückner
Accordingly, content should always generate a certain amount of excitement and be based on the fundamentals of fiction.
